Navigating thru our post-modern baggage often prompts thought and discussion. Whether or not collective-crowd worship is even a valid experience. It is extremely important for us to comprehend the weight of the moments that we have during a worship experience as a collective group of believers. The cynical, over-churched, and jaded followers of Jesus can tend to be distracted from the real Jesus, His real heart, and even the importance of community.
What we do during our worship gatherings is incredibly important. This is a time where we can shift our life around. We take the focus off our problems and focus on the Healer. We take our focus off of us and place it on our Creator… when we play and sing, we’re creating an environment of praise. Obviously, it doesn’t take a worship gathering together for this to happen, but let’s be honest; most people attending church gatherings on Sundays haven’t spent the week reading the Bible and praying through the midnight hour.
We’re not just singing a song like singing happy birthday at a 5 year old’s party. We’re not even beginning our own songs. We ARE joining a song that is already being sung by others all over the world; A song that has been being sung for all of history. We’re joining the saints & believers of the ages. The experience, song selection, volume, nor whether or not the band is wearing shoes should not be about us. It’s gathering in the name of the One obviously greater than us.
I’ve often been frustrated by quotes like this from Spurgeon… “Do not flatter yourselves: if you go to places of worship merely to look about you or to hear music, you are not worshipping God”. As much as it stings, I am finding it to be true.
I’m not attempting to argue an all in-compassing resolve, rather voicing some thoughts from my perspective of what I do, so I would love to discuss and hear your comments.
Chad Jarnagin
Tyler Smith
January 18, 2011 at 9:58 am
Good thoughts. I’ve had many of these kind of conversations. Many of my friends dont see the point, but that might be because they don’t really live for God. Just because people come to church doesn’t make them passionate followers.
Bill Colburn
January 18, 2011 at 9:59 am
“Collective crowd worship” vs “crowd sourcing”? Though I enjoy the first, I am often blessed as a ‘spectator’ and infrequent participant – if I happen to know the song and feel competent to sing. On the second point, seldom observed, worship is a totally participatory experience, more as noted in Paul’s letter to the Colossians (3:16). Where worship ‘sources’ the ‘crowd’, anticipating and valuing God’s voice through each individual, the worship experience is far more transformative rather than momentarily experiential. Though I enjoy the experience of hundreds of voices raised in song to God and listening to a good sermon, this has become the sum total ‘norm’ for worship, that tends to ‘warehouse’ Christians, inoculating them against seeking anything truly revolutionary, creating addicts of the ‘experience’ where they live only in hope for one more worship ‘fix’. Hmm, I’m, sadly, one of those ‘guilty as charged’, yet trying to discover ‘something better’. So I started Xaris, trying to emulate a ‘crowd sourcing’ church I once attended in CA.
Jeff Forslund
January 18, 2011 at 12:49 pm
Many thoughts as a member of the crowd. I don’t think it’s that important (or possible) for every moment to be a life altering, 110% focused moment with Christ. We’re not perfect enough to do that. I think we try to have as many moments like that as possible but we’re still in this world living.
So a light that’s too bright or a note that’s too loud or a thought that enters my head as I experience the moment needs to be okay. Does it distract…maybe. Does it cheapen the experience, doesn’t need to. Conversely – can it help me “feel” the meaning more – you bet, we’re sensory-driven. He’s used His Son, oral storytelling, the written word, why not a musical worship service?
But again, we’re not perfect. So if I can take away the meaning from any worship experience and feel more centered as a Christian and go out and act as such – call my crazy but that’s a good thing right? But I still won’t be perfect.
I get the concept of false worship but to label an entire service as such is removing any personal responsibility I must have to develop MY inner relationship with Him. And even better, if that relationship is strong, I can attend a misguided service that is personally motivated and still get what I need from it. The Spurgeon quote doesn’t need to sting as it’s qualified with the word “merely.”
Thoughts from a neophyte…
John
January 18, 2011 at 1:46 pm
In short, I do tend to agree that this is important, but I honestly don’t participate on a regular basis. I can’t sing, so therefore, I can’t “worship” like everyone else. I don’t listen to “worship” music, so I’m not going to be familiar with the songs.
There is something nice about being with others that genuinely worship during church. Maybe it’s my upbringing, but I’m not extremely comfortable with most church experiences these days.
Steven Allen
January 18, 2011 at 2:04 pm
Spurgeon… “Do not flatter yourselves: if you go to places of worship merely to look about you or to hear music, you are not worshipping God”. I believe this!
We have made church, worship, and most of our culture ALL about us, our needs, and OUR preferences. THAT is not pleasing to God. I’m peaceful to know that He loves us as we are, not as we should be, BUT He delights in the praises of His children. Why would we not want to come together and love on the One who first loved us? Oh, because we don’t like the songs? It’s too loud? This is ridiculous, and screams of self-centeredness.
Thanks for posting this Chad.
mandythompson
January 18, 2011 at 4:58 pm
Excellent quote from Spurgeon. Excellent.
…of course, it makes me so discouraged as a worship leader. I get it. But how do I help my congregation get it?
Charlie
January 18, 2011 at 5:30 pm
This is good Chad. Mandy, I would think that is all of our struggle. We as leaders probably need to be teaching and spreading this message and angle.
I’m not completely sure how to without coming off preachy.
Chad Jarnagin
January 18, 2011 at 8:02 pm
great thought, heart, and insight here. Thank you all for engaging on this.
Bill & Jeff, I enjoy your perspective and candor. I want to see more discussion from others, but I have will spend some time w/ your comments and insight for possibly further comments. Tyler & Charlie, thank you. John and Steven, I want to thank you as well. I don’t take any of your time and effort for granted. Mandy, this is a great question that we must all think through throughly… and then strategically engage.
All of your comments are stirring even more thoughts, questions, and even some more understanding. Stay tuned… and PLEASE feel free to continue discussing. NEW comments are welcome. I KNOW there are plenty of you reading that should engage here. It would do us all good to hear more.
Chris
January 18, 2011 at 8:15 pm
Gatherings are important for us because they’re important to God.
In Eden, God gathers together with Adam & Eve. Exodus, God leads a gathering of His people. Old Testament temple, gathering after gathering after gathering. Bethlehem, shepherds gather. Jesus gathers with disciples and with crowds. Acts, gatherings experience the coming of the Spirit. New Testament church, gathering of the people is the rebuilding of the temple. New creation, gathering around the throne in worship of God.
Katie
January 19, 2011 at 8:42 am
Are the individuals in the congregation who are sitting, standing, singing, silent, raising hands, swaying actually engaging in worship? It’s not up to me to decide. The Lord knows. But I sure hope they are (for their sakes) because it is the most fulfilling action/state of mind & heart! I think that if someone is really going to engage in worship, they would no matter what the environment is. Although worship leaders aren’t responsible for whether we are actually worshipping or not, I’m so thankful for worship leaders who create an environment that is especially conducive for focusing on the Lord’s holiness!
While worship can happen anywhere, anytime, we might think of corporate Sunday mornings as a time to begin the week really focusing on the Lord. But I believe that we truly worship with our whole Spirits (at church) when we not only view it as beginning the week, directing it to the Lord, but also as a time to end the previous week. When each day is an offering to Him, we open ourselves up to receive His spiritual blessings, which will fill us with joy. After a week of that, you’ll just be ready to explode with joyful worship! Thank you, worship leaders who give us an outlet to explode.
Chad Jarnagin
January 19, 2011 at 2:08 pm
Katie. Thanks for this encouraging note. Thankful for you and Solomon. Love your hearts!
Bill Colburn
January 19, 2011 at 2:47 pm
On the topic of music and worship, this article was fascinating:
http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2011/01/turns-out-that-music-really-is-intoxicating-after-all.ars
Tyler Smith
January 20, 2011 at 7:50 am
Chris, that’s great. Well done there.
May we be reminded that when we don’t think that collective gatherings are important, that we remember the story before us up to this point.
Honestly, I’ve had some great moments this week and I can’t wait for Sunday.
Sean
January 22, 2011 at 1:41 pm
I read this a few days ago, but I’m just now coming around to leaving a comment.
When I’m in church, I don’t like to be made to feel like I have to “worship”. I realize that I AM at church, but it’s really up to me anyway. We will all do what we want to do, and when we want to do it. We would all be kidding ourselves to say that we do or don’t worship because of the song selection or style preference. We will NOT sing or participate as much if it is a bunch of songs that we do not know or do not like. We may engage a bit more if we DO like the music.
I would also say that if the “environment” is full of lights, loud speakers, and fog, most would be distracted by all of that. I left a church because of all that mess.
Chad Jarnagin
January 24, 2011 at 6:19 pm
Thanks guys.
Sean, thank you for dropping by. I would like to thank you for your honesty. I’m not wanting to debate w/ you. However, I will say again, that when we come with our preference as more of a priority than WHY we are joining together, there in lies an issue.
The more people that come to “worship” with stiff necks bodes the question… are said people coming to actually worship their Creator at all? Just as positivity is contagious, so is negativity. Boo for negativity.